Haha. Yeah GBH really are fantastic. Christianized Cannibals is such a killer song!
The Punk Appreciation Thread - Embrace Your Inner Anarchist!
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 Count Nayrb |
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Posts: 56 (05/01/09 22:20) Uruk-Hai |
Spears agleam in the dying sun. The blood is spilt, the battle's won. From the Ice Throne the god-king shall rule, when nine stars kiss the moon o'er
Ultima Thule.
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Protector |
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Posts: 606 (05/02/09 15:08) of all endless sleeps |
well i never was into punk, but right from the beginning when i started to deal with black metal i always thought that black metal ist quite in the vein of
punk.
its a kind of nihilistic approach of music, breaking any tabues, trying to be disgusting to the mainstream. it was also about beeing proud not to be a super virtous guitar hero. specially dark throne had that approach for me. but i think that original idea turned meanwhile to the contrary. the elements originaly used to destroy the burgeois lifestyle now became the opposite of their original meaning. instead of shocking some pople with a swastika, now they kneel to it. instead of expressing their individuality by destroying any klischees, they now turn to a conformistic group of sheeps calling for a leader. its really sad. but actually the punk scene became also like that. all those wannabe punks of today who think they live a live total free from the capitalistic market, by sitting in the street and aksing for money from working people simply did not understand anything about the anarchistic ideas. |
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Putrid Wind |
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Posts: 1285 (05/02/09 19:16) Euro Dance DJ |
New Darkthrone pretty much is punk, it's definitely a bridge between the two genres. I think most punks I know from school and such are just drop outs and
people who were either to dumb to stay in school or got kicked out for violence etc. It's become a scene of losers imo.
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Protector |
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Posts: 607 (05/03/09 03:16) of all endless sleeps |
yes they are either looser pretending to be winners, or some kind of middle class burgeoise predenting to be the bad guys:-)
but as far as i know at the beginning it was much different. bands like crass for example moved to a farm and produced their own food and cloths; they really disconnected from the finanziam market as far as possible. btw its ist not punk but come punky hardcore but the first LP from D.R.I. really was important for me at the beginning of my metal time. |
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Maeglin Black |
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Posts: 579 (05/03/09 04:05) Jaded Metal Punk |
Protector wrote:I think the two genres have a lot of similarities as well, especially now that I've done some deeper research into the origins of punk. Even the way it branched off into a number of different sub-genres is similar, and it had roughly the same half-life before everyone either sold out (Johnny Rotten's latest butter ads in the UK come to mind) or moved on, and the flood of boring wannabes began until the entire thing was a mockery of it's former self. Hey, sounds familiar!
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Protector |
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Posts: 608 (05/03/09 04:20) of all endless sleeps |
yes true.
even the idea of small fanzines which was essential for the beginning of the black metal scene, is a result of that "do it yourself" attitude of the punk scene. |
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Putrid Wind |
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Posts: 1286 (05/03/09 05:33) Euro Dance DJ |
Yeah, well scenes begin with idealistic people with a vision and become plagued by people that jump on the bandwagon (over simplification) in almost every
case.
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Count Nayrb |
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Posts: 58 (05/03/09 09:13) Uruk-Hai |
Yes, I used to hang out with the punks and call myself one of them when I first got into High School. I had a hard time dealing with them though. Over time I
realized that I have a more "artistic" approach to viewing things. To me I was ok with what they'd call "posers" simply because I felt
that the performers embodied the characteristics well enough etc. etc. to create what might be called a "fantasy." I ended up realizing that the
punks I hung around with were the biggest posers in the end because they were so obsessed with stupid crap, modeling their lives off of people that obviously
failed and in many cases commited suicide and worried so much about pleasing the rest of the "scene." I also got sick of hearing about how not good a
band or person was if they didn't do an insane amount of drugs/ how not good metal was in general. Believe me, 8 years ago, if you told me Iron Maiden
sucked, you'd hear about it. Plus, none of these people had bands. They just hung around in the park and spit on eachother... threw desks at teachers at
school and spread STDs. And the ones who actually tried to follow their own path became so pretentious in their own way that they became unaproachable. Anywho,
I was in a crust punk band back then, we were horrible!
I still love plenty of that stuff. I'd like to do a black metal cover of an Addicts song....
Spears agleam in the dying sun. The blood is spilt, the battle's won. From the Ice Throne the god-king shall rule, when nine stars kiss the moon o'er
Ultima Thule.
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Putrid Wind |
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Posts: 1287 (05/03/09 14:40) Euro Dance DJ |
I still like punk too, I just think it's ridiculous that, like Protector said, you get these middle/upper class kids dressing like fucking bums, pretending
that they have a fucking hard life, and that the punk life style fits them. Those are the poseurs, the kids who try so fucking hard.
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VenterHelvete |
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Posts: 701 (05/03/09 17:04) Midnight Possessor |
I have a few friends who I would consider to be of "punk" status, next to homeless, no showers.. I love the kids who become punk through Hot Topic
and have NO IDEA how it even started.
''I don't know why I'm into Satanism. I don't know why I like cheeseburgers, but there must be something. It's great!'' -
Fenriz
 
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Ungolianth |
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Posts: 1617 (05/04/09 02:28) Da Sneaky Git |
Well, even though the punk of the english wave of anarchic rebellion is long since dead I think they left a large impact on music as well as lifestyle. After
all it was from this scene that most of the 80s gothrock as well as many other smaller genres grew. Black Metal have two brethrens in music and that is Punk
and Rap(especially gangsta ;] ). With both rap and black metal comes a whole dresscode, one side uses Trve, the other Gangsta to provide with what is the core
of the music. Both genres love to pose with various weapons in way that normal people find extremly amusing although gangsta tend to use handguns where
blackmetal uses sticks and stones. Both scenes are pretty unique in that countrys/regions tend to influence the style of the music (i.e East/West side,
Norwegian Black, Slavonic Black etc etc etc.). Both parties tend to overly romanticise some sort of extreme, be it anti-christianity and churchburning or life
of crime and living in the hood!
I can probably count up alot of more similarities but you get the point. Even if black metal and gangsta rap are far from each others in the style of music the sub-cultures are very much alike. Punks of today seldom value the anarchistic ideology but then again what one have to put into the equation is that nowadays the kids are grown up i a far more open and tolerant society. We arent living in the 70-80 anymore and people more or less accepts the various subcults for what they are, part of the enourmous society that makes up our semi-democratic society. Kids today have a strong need to fit into a flock of their own, therefor they tend to jump onto whatever style suits them at the moment be it punk, metalhead, gangsta, synthpoper or whatever. Its not about the ideology any longer, its about finding their place in society and to be honest. How many of the earliest punks do you think live the punk lifestyle today? I can bet on the most of them have normalised, gotten married, spawned children etc etc  we live in a dynamic world where subcultures arent a menace to society any longer.
Me? Im all orky now, in 10 years from now i'll let ye know what happened 
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Maeglin Black |
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Posts: 581 (05/04/09 04:17) Jaded Metal Punk |
Putrid Wind wrote:Every scene except...European dance music? 
I had always focused on the US scene growing up and written the UK "imposters" off as little more than a vehicle for selling fringe fashion (which, in a way, it was - but that's not all it was). I was surprised to learn later on how eerily similar the genesis and gradual destruction of that movement was to that of the second wave of black metal. That makes it all the more tragic that bands like the Sex Pistols have been merchandized to the point that they're basically synonymous with "Hot Topic". It is a portrait of the not-too-distant future. Ungolianth, your comparison to rap initially invoked my American fury, but your examples are hard to argue with, and the more I think about it, the more I agree with you. Wouldn't THAT be a fun topic to start over at anus.com?
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Ungolianth |
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Posts: 1620 (05/04/09 08:23) Da Sneaky Git |
Haha yea that would probably turn into a trolling bin like there was no tomorrow
Just to solidify my thesis:  
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Protector |
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Posts: 609 (05/04/09 08:46) of all endless sleeps |
i am really impressed about those true and realistic way to say those similarities:-)
and that 50cent burzum pictures totally rule, perfect picture choice :-)!!! i actually had the same thoughts about black metal and gangster hip hop scene, i even wrote theme in a german interview (which i did not send to far). the things i see similar between a young klische gangster rapper fan and a young klische black metal fan are that both are in most cases some kiddies suffering under a lack of attention while having the feeling tobe the center of the universe. in both scene the different groups say bad things against each other (shooting each other or nailing some pigs head on the door etc). and both escape in a kind of unreal-world with gets more and more mixed up with the real word for them. the wannabe gangsters (specially in germany) have their illusions about some gangster ghetto that they never even have experienced, while black metal fans dream about being an hard old viking, or a hobbit or whatever while shopping in the supermarket:-) not to be misunderstood, its fine and even necessary to have alternative worlds and fantasy beside the real sober world, but its really becomes a problem if people confuse those two word, what happens to a lot of true guys in both scenes.
Last Edited By: Protector
05/04/09 09:35.
Edited 1 times.
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VenterHelvete |
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Posts: 702 (05/04/09 12:11) Midnight Possessor |
Protector wrote: You know what though, I think that happens with any "extreme" form of music. Music of the harsher variety anyway. Kids tend to rebel through music more often than not. So whichever genre they tend to use for their rebellion is going to be extremes, and the things they do either for their music or for the love of their music are going to have some similarities. I mean you dont see so much in the kids who are hardcore into Orchestra. They don't generally tend to be the rebellious kind of kid. The kid who listens to Yanni isn't going to be the one who cuts himself for Yanni or joins a Yanni gang. 
''I don't know why I'm into Satanism. I don't know why I like cheeseburgers, but there must be something. It's great!'' -
Fenriz
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Protector |
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Posts: 610 (05/04/09 12:51) of all endless sleeps |
VenterHelvete wrote: good example:-) but that's actually not 100% true. in turkey there is a kind arabic version of turkish music called "arabesque", which is listened to people of all age. its an extremely commercial cheesy music trying to express the suffering of the singer, while make even some 50 year old women cut themselves with a razorblad to suffer with the singer while they listen to it. some people even sell razorblades infront of some arabesque concerts:-) but its not done to be hard and cool guy, it is just about suffering.
Last Edited By: Protector
05/04/09 12:54.
Edited 1 times.
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Count Nayrb |
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Posts: 59 (05/04/09 15:31) Uruk-Hai |
Oh wow... that's wild.
Yeah... I'm all for being a hobbit. Escapism is great! Although I do agree that it's taking it a bit overboard when you kill someone. The Rap/Black Metal arguement is great too! I was never the type of person who was attracted to black metal because it made me feel "sick" or "depressed me." In all honesty, what people consider "depressing" often makes me happy. For instance, Agalloch is one of my favorite bands; They are very gloomy and whatnot, and I find it to be fantastic. Just like I love days when it rains all day. So I guess by many standards, I am not TROOOOO enough.
Spears agleam in the dying sun. The blood is spilt, the battle's won. From the Ice Throne the god-king shall rule, when nine stars kiss the moon o'er
Ultima Thule.
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VenterHelvete |
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Posts: 703 (05/04/09 15:43) Midnight Possessor |
Protector wrote: good example:-) but that's actually not 100% true. in turkey there is a kind arabic version of turkish music called "arabesque", which is listened to people of all age. its an extremely commercial cheesy music trying to express the suffering of the singer, while make even some 50 year old women cut themselves with a razorblad to suffer with the singer while they listen to it. some people even sell razorblades infront of some arabesque concerts:-) but its not done to be hard and cool guy, it is just about suffering.[/quote] Wow, I think you found the one example where my argument doesn't hold true haha! Count, I don't listen to it because it depresses me either. I think when I first started listening to anything like that it was because I didn't fit in to a degree but now obviously I'm almost 30 that isn't the case. But, for the most part, wasn't punk all about rebellion when it started? I'm not a huge fan of punk, I like it but not very educated in the background of it, maybe I should read the book E. finished a while ago, it's a huge "book - umentary" on punk. Maybe E. can answer that one, didn't it originate from rebellion and anarchy and shit like that?
''I don't know why I'm into Satanism. I don't know why I like cheeseburgers, but there must be something. It's great!'' -
Fenriz
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Putrid Wind |
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Posts: 1289 (05/04/09 20:17) Euro Dance DJ |
I think there are definitely forms of music that don't expressly inspire you to act a certain or follow a certain ideology. Take Classical or Jazz, mostly
or fully instrumental depending on composer, well a person can take out of the music something damaging, such as feeling despair to a Chopin Nocturne, or a
feeling of heroism and pride from something like Wagner opera. But music like that doesn't change your views, it taps into something that already exists in
your personality and amplifies it. There's definitely styles that aren't like a modern forms of music which make package views and sometimes even
blatant propaganda into their music.
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Ungolianth |
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Posts: 1623 (05/04/09 23:36) Da Sneaky Git |
Im still quite certain that if you have a open mind and are highly intellectual(such as yours truly) then the propaganda wont get to you. I mean sure, I see
the dangers in leading youthsters into a bad path by providing the theme and image of random behavior into the music. But thats where the parents have to do
something. You cant really blame Burzum for the fact that similar assholes go fireing up churches that have withstood the passing of ages. Sure he chiseled out
a reaction from the society he lived in by lighting up that church but in my opinion it was the worst thing he could have done. The same goes with other
ass-hats such as extreme selfmutilators, crime-romantics and neo-nazi douchebags. Hell I could claim that my own music carry traces of propaganda even though I
know by heart that its just trying to provoke a reaction from the masses (a task that goes slowly at best :P )
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