i never said that i have plans to make summoning songs only done by me; i just said that i stop working on a song after a while so that silenius can add
something and that this times there will be songs started by me (since the last 3 albums they all started with silenius). but anyway in the past there even
existed pure "protector" songs (those mentiones medieval songs or over grey hills) but would not like to do that again. for me summoning is simply my
"cooperation" project; an aspect that makes it different to dvke or ice ages which are all total solo projects (seeing it from the composition side).
New Summoning Album
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 Protector |
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Posts: 513 (01/17/08 00:51) of all endless sleeps |
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ErikHamburg |
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Posts: 1 (01/17/08 13:50) |
Protector wrote: Hei Protector
You know (and I can only tell you over and over again) that the fans want the old sound back. That could be a first step in 12 years. Silenius quit Abigor
because they went too electronic, so why this rejecting point now?
...of course we agree, that the new Abigor material is crap...
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Putrid Wind |
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Posts: 777 (01/17/08 14:58) Euro Dance DJ |
Well I wasn't saying that you are going to make the new album without Silenius, I just meant that I that I think the co=operation of you two is a very
important element in achieveing that "Summoning Sound" hehe.
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Protector |
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Posts: 514 (01/21/08 06:55) of all endless sleeps |
meanwhile i replaced this mediaval song by another one, i hope silenius will like this one more.
i also created another song fragment, so now already 3 song ideas exist. on saturday i played this new medieval song to Lord Curufinwe but for him it did not remind on the old medieval summoning songs such as "passing of the grey company" because the shalm sound was simply to realistic and did not sound like from a total cheap keyboard such as minas morgul times; well i have to dissapoint you all if thats the point of the old songs, i will not try to recreate those super old korg 01wdf sound;-) |
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Traver |
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Posts: 3 (01/21/08 07:32) |
The cheap sounds do have a certain charm to them, I don't think Legend of the Master Ring would sound as good with high quality MIDIs
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Protector |
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Posts: 515 (01/21/08 13:23) of all endless sleeps |
yes sure i understand:-)
but anyway this is something that was fine once but would be just not honest and fake if we would do that now. in the past those sounds where great for us, and we considered then as high quality (as we did not know any alternatives). using them now knowing that they are cheap micro loop sounds would be a total different approach to create music than those times. |
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VenterHelvete |
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Posts: 159 (01/21/08 16:31) Midnight Possessor |
Ok, Now, this is JUST my opinion, so dont jump down my throat haha. I have to be the opposing team here. Bands evolve sometimes for the better, sometimes for
the worse. Although I love old Summoning, it's exciting to see what they'll come up with next. I don't think I could listen to a band if they
always sounded exactly the same as they did when they first started. I like hearing the evolution of a band. If it's for the worse then so be it. But more
likely than not, with a band like Summoning I don't see how it could be for the worse, they are highy talented and I am very excited to see what the new
sounds are. Metal would lose all of it's passion for me if all of the bands I listened to never evolved.
''I don't know why I'm into Satanism. I don't know why I like cheeseburgers, but there must be something. It's great!'' -
Fenriz
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Putrid Wind |
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Posts: 781 (01/22/08 00:14) Euro Dance DJ |
I agree VinterHelvete, look at half the black metal bands out there that try to sound like old Burzum! At the same time I think it is important to not change
to radically like a band like "Sigh" or "Ulver". Somehow there is no central theme or concept to these bands and the music sounds like a
different band on every CD. Of course I would not say Summoning are guilty of either (well maybe a little bit of Burzum riff worship on Lugburz hehe) and I am
sure that whatever the next CD is like it will be great! So to be frank I think we should just let Protector and Silenius do their thing and I'm sure we
will have another excellent CD to listen to no matter which direction they decide to go with the new CD.
BTW, I agree, the old MIDI sounds do have a very nice quality to them, kinda like some of the older video game music that I enjoy listening to every now and then. 
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Ungolianth |
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Posts: 1110 (01/22/08 09:18) Da Sneaky Git |
Will be great to hear some of that old and goodsie sound again! Although I do like Oathbound I still marvel over the general feeling that looms so heavily over
Minas Morgul and Dol Guldur.. Will you be using more guitar on this album or will it stay in the same style as in Oathbound?
About the "old" sound or whatever I still feel that some bands actually levitates with the old crappy synthezisers, Elffor, a band I simply cant stop rave about in all the treads I make is one of those musicians who still uses a somewhat older sound and use it to create a simply marvelous atmosphere. Im quite sure everyone want to evolve as a musician and using instruments just to "sound" like Burzum or whatever is just plain stupid, everyone creates his owns tyle and after a while you get tired and wants to evolve. I just hope that artists remembers the roots from time to time
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ErikHamburg |
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Posts: 2 (01/22/08 15:08) |
Protector wrote: It is not about using the old plugins. It is about re-creating the atmosphere which was raw and honest. Protector, what do you think about using new sounds for the keyboard parts as well as the drums, while at the same time putting more reverb on the vocals and more distortion on the guitars as in the old days?
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Protector |
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Posts: 518 (01/23/08 00:19) of all endless sleeps |
in the past silenius simply was not really able to add an additional tune to an existing one. his way of composing was simply to "chaotic" or lets
better say music theory lacking. but as i got some experience with kreuzweg ost where he meanwhile adds tunes at least to existing rhythms he wants to try it
this time also with summoning. so it was the idea of both of use that i start some songs and he tries to enricht them (the total contrary way).
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Protector |
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Posts: 523 (01/23/08 00:41) of all endless sleeps |
concerning cheap sounds:
i also think a band should stay true to their original ideas (or otherwise just make another musical project). but that does not mean that they shall stay total the same like if they are frozen. i think keeping the original spirit does not mean keeping totally the same sound. i think its rather the contrary. the spirit of the times of "minas morgul" was just to take anything we could get to create a bombastic epic sounds keeping our artistic freedom; it was not our will to create music with cheap synths ;-) so now we still want to use anything that helps us to create an epic sound keeping our artistic freedom ... and still we don't want to create cheap sounds; but this time we are more successful with the last wish. btw lots of people (mainly not connected to that music) still consider the keyboard sounds as total cheap. i don't really know what they mean, we nice synths meanwhile. i guess its just the different usage of the synths and the mix and i think they would say that even with a real orchestra, but thats just speculation. |
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Ungolianth |
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Posts: 1118 (01/23/08 04:28) Da Sneaky Git |
Exellent and as always im really excited about the new style
I do hope you create more tracks in the style of Mirdautas Vras, its a gift in total ORKYNESS
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Dark Muse |
Thats great news! | ||
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Posts: 12 (01/23/08 10:29) Uruk-Hai |
I'm very happy to hear about the working of the new album.
I just wanted to say that I have no clue what you guys are talking about. Why a band shall stay with their old sound or more likely to say crap instrument? Every band should try and seek with each new album to make perfect sound as much as possible. Summoning is a very good example for a band that went forward very good with the Atmospheric black metal that they created, evolving and improving the sound and instruments each album. Excluding Lugburuz, Minas morgul sound comparing to Oath bound is simply bad! Do you even listen carefully to the drums? to the background and vocals? I know some people hear something and they like it very much, but when a new album is evolving and advance forward with technology and capabilities, they dislike it because they are square or don't know what! I think Summoning should have better sound, make it even better than Oath bound. The drums more realistic as possible, the trumpets, the horns, everything should sound clear and pure. That doesn't mean that they cant build Atmosphere with it, Protector can even do it much better! Just for example a band that use folk instruments like Eluveitie that sound very pure and "Modern" but the touch of the ancient Celtic still burn in the music they create. I think protector should do what he is doing now, creating midevil sound with new and better tools to create an advanced sound. nothing should take out the atmosphere, It might even have better atmosphere than the mighty Oath Bound! If someone here know Orkrist, a Slovenian band that disbanded in 2004, they might have took influences from Summoning and they created a really nice albums. you can see how their sound is clear and yet, atmospheric and can take your mind to a distant land ;-) |
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Traver |
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Posts: 4 (01/23/08 10:34) |
Dark Muse wrote: I agree that bands should evolve and strive to sound better with every release, BUT that doesn't necessarily
mean more realistic. I read somewhere that the goal for Summoning isn't to sound realistic, because it portrays a fantasy world, something different than
this world. So depending on your tastes, cheap synths may actually sound better than realistic ones. Personally I enjoy more realistic sounds, but not everyone
does, and to them, a better sound may even mean using less realistic sounds.
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Dark Muse |
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Posts: 13 (01/23/08 12:08) Uruk-Hai |
Its after all depend how Summoning wants to sound like. But again, I still wont understand how cheap synths will sound better than advanced tools, or even for the best that I have in my dream that is hear summoning played by
real orchestra!
Don't forget that Summoning is not playing the music of another Xen world. They play the sound of middle - earth, and as for that, I'm not sure cheap synths will do the best to deliver that feeling. Its the horns of Rohan and Trumpets of Gondor. The Drumming beat of the mighty Trolls and the water in the Anduin. 
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Protector |
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Posts: 524 (01/24/08 01:02) of all endless sleeps |
@Dark Muse:
i understand the opinions of the people loving the old cheap sounds quite well. it separated the music much more from classical music as the newer sounds do now. and if i really would have only the two alternatives to use the cheap sounds again or use a real orchestra i definitely would choose the cheep sounds. the horns and trumpets we use might sound like the horns of rohan and trumpets of gondor, but they definitely shall not sound like the horns or trumpets of the vienna philharmonic orchestra directed by "claudio abbado", those musicians are neither orks nor hobbits;-) just think what the european culture made with the original spanish / mauritanian acoustic guitars; they have hardly anything in common with the original, that would be the ideal for the orchestral instruments, but so far they surely are much closer to the orchestral origins than the guitars (and even tending more and more into that direction automatically). the other reason why i definitely would never want to continue summoning with a real orchestra is that we see ourselves still as underground two man band with no creative limits. we are not dependent on high budgets nor can anybody tell us how our tunes shall sound. not conservative classical musician nor any classical director is allowed to "interpret" our music so that it suits to the old fashioned classic aesthetic. only we decide which not is how long, how loud etc. anyway now as computer disc space is no longer a problem and modern software sampler can store for each key an own recorded orchestral sample, the sound difference to an orchestra does not exist. actually with each key press we use a real orchestra sound meanwhile; the only difference is that a real instrument can better manage the tone-sequences, while with a sampler a tone-sequence never is really affiliated. but thats something for me thats rather relevant for traditional classical music not for our music. on the other hand i think that if we would use a real orchestra and not tell it to anybody they still would ask for a real orchestra; simply because we have to mix the sound in our way so that they suit to the no classic elements such as the guitars and drums. we does this mixing very free not caring about the original sound (that propably why some people consider the sound as bad; it does not sound like the original). but thats actually the metal music way of working. just listen to a drum kit in a rehearsal room and then to a finished high budget recording. you would not even realize that you hear the same tom tom for example; to much equalizer mixing there.
Last Edited By: Protector
01/24/08 01:09.
Edited 2 times.
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Ungolianth |
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Posts: 1125 (01/24/08 03:26) Da Sneaky Git |
Dark Muse wrote: Hehe as a archaeologist I find that comment quite amusing since we hardly know anything about the ancient celtic music. What I gues your say is that they contribute with a feel of the romatic view on what traditional celtic music should be. For generally music in history is almost complete guesses when it comes the the celtic and germanic tribes. We might know what instruments they used but nothing more. Excluding Lugburuz, Minas morgul sound comparing to Oath bound is simply bad! Do you even listen carefully to the drums? to the background and vocals?You missed the point I think, for me as a individual musical effect is never ever about the quality of the sound or even the choice of instruments. Lots of the newer fans of Summoning have no idea about how it was growing up back in the days listening to Minas Morgul, back then it was great music, and for me its still the best cd Summoning ever have released. The fact that synthesizers have improved tremendously the last 12 years dont affect the general feeling of the music. I havent said Richard should stop evolving and use his old synthesizers, what I do say is that back in the days when clean sound wasnt so easy to create the general feel of the music was hell of alot darker and moody. Oathbound cant even get close in the raw dose of orkyness that Minas Morgul emits, I notice in your post that your more the "fine taster" of music who wants clean compositions and exellent quality on the mastering as well as the general sound. And yes I do listen carefully to the drums and the vocals, the drums on Passing of the Grey Company is exellent, the feeling of the entire cd is skyrocketing. I was a kid when I started listen to Summoning but it was the sound of Minas Morgul that inspired me to become a musician as well, pardon my language but fuck quality, thats not where the heart of the music is.. Don't forget that Summoning is not playing the music of another Xen world. They play the sound of middle - earth, and as for that, I'm not sure cheap synths will do the best to deliver that feeling. Its the horns of Rohan and Trumpets of Gondor. The Drumming beat of the mighty Trolls and the water in the Anduin.This is exactly the point, Summoning is all this without the use of a live orchestra.. Its all in the mind and those cheap synths managed to create that feeling for me 1995 when Minas Morgul got out so whats the problem? The drums in the song Ungolianth is awesome and sound exactly as I imagine mighty wardrums of orcs might sound, apperantly you imagine Middle Earth to be more of a composition by Howard Shore with mighty orchestras and choirs, for me its the black and looming sounds of Summoning.. Just my point of view but I have my childhood fantasies about middle earth and Summoning have done a great deal in evolving my own orkyness
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Putrid Wind |
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Posts: 789 (01/24/08 13:55) Euro Dance DJ |
Summoning with orchestra doesn't sound right to me. Nazgul are using an orchestra on their new CD and I'm sure after listening I will be able to
comment on this with a more knowledgable opinion.
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GmT Curwen |
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Posts: 57 (01/24/08 14:33) Uruk-Hai |
Wich Nazgul? The Italians?
Wenn ich tot win werdet, Ich weiter gehen
Walter als jedmans, und Kraft und Weisheit, zu erreichen Wie einen Gott von anderen ende |
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